A list again.

[fishpatrol]

1. Damn those bright, distracting, pink plastic things
The bruise on the inside of my thigh is still there from last week. I got it from walking straight into one of these bike posts because I was too busy staring up at a pink plastic flamingo whose head was sticking over the balcony of an apartment building to look where I was going. =___=;;

2. I'll appreciate this when I'm forty
This morning (before 8am on a Saturday! D:), my parents dragged me out of bed to go to a conservation area park thingie. I was snoozing in the backseat with my glasses off and my headphones on, and apparently I looked young enough to pass for a child because we were only charged for two adults and a child ticket at the entrance. I'm hoping "child" equals "16 and under" and not the usual "12 and under". LOL;;;

3. My mommy is lol♥
My mom and I were sitting on a park bench waiting for my dad to finish fishing and I was making her listen to SJ-M songs. I told her about Henry being Chinese-Canadian and a dancing violin player, and my mom was like, "You play the violin -- you can put your hair under a hat and join them."* ;;; And later I revealed my nefarious plans to convince her to like the kind of music I like so that she would willing buy CDs and other merchandise for me when she goes to China, and I told her about the limited edition SJ-M CD which seems to be only purchasable in China. She was like, "Why don't you just have it shipped to your aunt and when your dad goes to China, he can pick it up for you. Or you can even ship it to my friend's place." After her initial, "Why are you still chasing boybands at your age?" (her exact words were, "你这么大还追星啊?"), she's been surprisingly nice about my crazy obsessions (including things like, "You want to fly all the way to LA for a concert? Okay, let me call your uncle and see if you can stay at his place.") XD<3

*-She must be the fourth or fifth person now to imply that I look like a guy (other people who have said so directly include my best friend and my ex-boyfriend...in a teasing manner, of course ;)). Kind of makes me want to dress up like a guy for a day and see if I can manage to successfully pass as one, heh. XD

4. Tenipuri songs are educational, okay
We saw an plane with a long streaming white tail of clouds. I pointed up and said, "That's called a contrail."
My head has been saturated with useless words lately because I've been studying for the GREs.

5. There are no such things as stupid questions, right?
Okay, so in Korean shows you often hear people refer to their friends by their names plus an "yi/ie" -- e.g. Sungminnie, Kibummie, Jaejoongie. Is the "ie" a form of endearment, indicating a close relationship, or is it actually the subject particle "이"? I can't recall if I've ever heard one person call another [insert name]-ie -- usually it's [insert name]-ah/yah ("ah" or "yah" depending on whether the ending letter is a consonant or a vowel, I assume). I could be totally off the mark. Idk. XD

Comments

[photograficnerd.livejournal.com]

@ 5, I've kind of wondered that myself. I've heard it used a lot but again, like you, can't recall if I've ever heard anyone call that person directly.

Lol. Your mom is cute. :3

The one time it's nice to be thought of as a child, not having to pay full price. Hehe. Otherwise, so annoying. D:

[fishpatrol]

I see it used a lot in fic, but after watching a drama, I realized that people call each other [insert name]-ah and refer to each other as [insert name]-ie (depending on age and relationship, of course).

I'm just hoping that when I'm, like, fifty, I will still look as though I'm in my thirties. ;) I have chubby-ish cheeks so it's going to be quite a while before I stop getting carded for everything. XD On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to pass as a twelve year old and get child admission on everything!

[spring.livejournal.com]

#1 made me want to squish you. The same thing happened to me, only with a pole. D:

#2 made me smile. LOL I wish I can pass as younger! Tweens think I'm sixteen. People my age or older thing I'm in my mid twenties. Gosh >_>

#3 LOLOL I ran and told my mom about this one. She pulls the "you're a man" card on me one too many times. LOL I love your mom's choice of words. How funny! XD

After her initial, "Why are you still chasing boybands at your age?"
amen XD
she's been surprisingly nice about my crazy obsessions
haha, mine just gave up on me

Did you go to HB in the end? And I didn't know about SJM's limited edition CD. The fact that it's only purchasable in China makes me all kinds of sad though. D:

Regarding Korean particles, I don't really know much about them. I just assume from what I pick up with hearing. I didn't know the subject particle. I'm wondering what the topic particle is. I can't romanize it for beans but I think it sounds something like "uhn". and do you know what the possessive particle is? and out of randomness, are you taking this at a uni? I can't find anywhere near me that teaches Korean. D: sry to bombard you with MY Korean questions. XD

[fishpatrol]

Did a plastic flamingo distract you, too???

It's nice to have a range of ages. ;D You'd be able use child/secondary school bus tickets, but you'd also be able to look older and wiser among your peers. Win-win!

No, for various reasons (including summer classes), I wasn't able to go to HB. D: If SJ goes to HB next year, and depending on my schedule after graduating, I think I'll try to go.

SJM has a limited edition CD has a DVD included that shows the making of U and the U MV, if I recall correctly. Someone on the SJM comm linked to the site that was selling, and the site didn't seem to ship outside of China. :x Maybe the limited edition part is a lie and other sites will carry it soon.

The Korean consulate offered an introductory class, so I took it with some friends. It was only ten lessons though, so my grasp of the language is pretty shaky. XD;; The subject particle is ie 이(consonant endings) or ga 가(vowel endings). The topic particle is eun 은(consonant endings) or neun 는(vowel endings). I have no idea what the possessive particle is though, sorry. D:

[joyfacedown.livejournal.com]

Woah, that bike post looks soooo dangerous, I hope you're all right.

I have a stupid question that I think only you can answer because Wikipedia wasn't very helpful. What is the difference between SuJu and SJ-M?

I hope you can get the CD you want!

[fishpatrol]

I'm perfectly fine (heh, though my dignity wasn't at the time XD), thanks for the concern. ^__^ It hurt a lot when I first slammed into it, but I was fine a day later -- the bruise is taking its sweet time to fade though!

Hee, yay, my favourite topic to ramble about! ;D Super Junior is the original 13-boy band -- they have several subgroups as well, including Super Junior Mandarin (SJ-M). The difference between SJ-M and all the other subgroups, other than the language difference, is that there are two members (out of a total of seven) who are not part of the original SJ group that were added into SJ-M, which caused outrage among certain sectors of the fandom (some of the Korean fangirls were absolutely livid -- it's a bit funny from an outsider's point of view ;)). If you want any of their music, just let me know! :D I'm pretty sure I have the entire discography of SJ and all of the subgroups, lol.

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

Your mom is so cute. <3 if she questions your enthusiasm for boybands again, you can mention me & and 27 year-old ass and you will be of a more acceptable fangirling age by comparison. XD

Is the "ie" a form of endearment, indicating a close relationship, or is it actually the subject particle "이"?

It's the former. You'd attach 씨 (or 님 to show ultimate respect) in any other case.

I can't recall if I've ever heard one person call another [insert name]-ie -- usually it's [insert name]-ah/yah ("ah" or "yah" depending on whether the ending letter is a consonant or a vowel, I assume). I could be totally off the mark. Idk.

No, you're right on the mark. :) One wouldn't say 이 when addressing someone directly; in that case -ah/yah is appropriate, as you've mentioned. Oh how I cringe at fanfics that get this wrong. >_<

[fishpatrol]

Hee, I think that fangirling is an activity that transcends age! I have a friend whose mother was so into F4 (the Taiwanese boyband) that she became a moderator for a fan-forum and also flew to China for a fan-meet-up a few years back (she's like this late-forties/early-fifties Chinese woman with a grown daughter XD).

So the difference between the use of 이 and 씨+님 (other than the difference in respect/level) is that 씨 and 님 can be used to refer to someone and directly address someone while 이 is replaced by 아 in the latter case? I see the "-ie" thing used a lot in fanfics, but it wasn't until I watched a drama that I realized that people didn't call each other [insert name]-ie.

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

Your friend's mom is my new inspiration. Please send her my regards. XD

is that 씨 and 님 can be used to refer to someone and directly address someone while 이 is replaced by 아 in the latter case?

Yup! Keep in mind, though, age difference dictates the appropriate use of 이/아... but I'm sure you'll learn that soon, or have already. ;)

You know how HP fandom is constantly Britpicked? There needs to be more Korean-picking in Kpop. Every time Changmin calls Jaejoong by his first name, baby Shiwon Jesus sheds a tear. :/

[illuminations.livejournal.com]

*butts in creepily; feel free to ignore :|*

Linguistics fascinate me, plus I also like being accurate. What are the rules of 이/아 and are there any times when a younger person can call an older person by their first name (ie dating, etc)? Or am I asking for an essay. D:

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

Not a problem ;)

이/아 is applicable to those you're friends with (or are fairly comfortable around) AND who are the same age or younger. Example, Yunho can say the following:

1) Jaejoong이 is my good friend. (referring to)
2) Jaejoong아, you're a good friend! (addressing directly)

But if you don't know the other person that well -- regardless of age -- you'd say:

1) Jaejoong씨 is handsome.
2) Jaejoong씨, you are handsome.

And when you are friends (or on friendly terms) with an older person... for example, Changmin can say:

1) Jaejoong형(hyung) beats me up.
2) Jaejoong형, stop beating me up just to have an excuse to touch me all over.

Etc...

are there any times when a younger person can call an older person by their first name (ie dating, etc)?

Yes, but only when there's a...modifier (?? not sure of the correct terminology) attached to that name.

1) Changmin can call Jaejoong "Jaejoong-hyung" but never "Jaejoong" alone (unless he mock-talks down at him, which is quite possible XD). Of course, simply "hyung" is also acceptable.

2) If you don't know someone that well you can still address him/her by his first name by adding 씨 (-sshi), or 님 (-nim) to be super polite. In a dating scenario, if the woman were younger than the man she'd call him [his name]-씨 until she becomes comfortable enough to call him 오빠 (oppa). Still, no first name-basis since she is the younger.

To sum it up: the younger can never address the older by his/her first name alone (either directly or indirectly) regardless of how close they are. There may be exceptions but personally I've not seen evidence to the contrary... unless it's in a joking/mock context as I've mentioned, and even that is restricted to extremely close relationships. And you can tell because they use full names, like how a mother would yell at you by your first-middle-last name to make an emphatic point. "Kim Junsu, your oyaji gags are so bad you have ceased to be human." asdjhka I just confused you even more, didn't I.

If you need further clarification on any of this let me know. XD

[illuminations.livejournal.com]

I think I get it, haha. I understand the basics at least through lots of exposure to Korean dramas :| and Japanese and Chinese systems are also a little similar.

Just two more questions! Is there a cut-off of sorts for what 'younger' is? For example, I've noticed that Yunho tends to just call Jaejoong by his name without any honorific attached, so does that mean their two-week age gap is short enough that the -hyung part is optional? Because Yoochun, despite only being a few months younger, uses hyung pretty frequently.

And second, what's the terminology for when a couple gets married then? Would a wife still call her husband oppa?

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

Is there a cut-off of sorts for what 'younger' is?

In general, if you're born in the same year as your friend you can drop the "hyung/oppa/unnie/nuna" honorifics, which is why Jaejoong and Yunho are peers. And technically Yoochun and Junsu are their peers as well so I'm not sure why they consider otherwise? I'm thinking it could be either because:

1) Jaejoong and Yunho entered school a year earlier - in that case, grade level overrides actual age, so anyone born in 1986 but who's a grade below them would have to call them hyung.
2) Jaejoong and Yunho count their age by the lunar calendar. If their birthdays fall before the Chinese New Year, they're technically born in the previous year compared to Yoochun and Junsu. This is sort of age-counting is not common but maybe DBSK wanted to be super-traditional or something...

BTW if you ever find out the real reason, do let me know as I'm curious too. ;)

what's the terminology for when a couple gets married then? Would a wife still call her husband oppa?

Wives can still call their husbands "oppa" (if the husband is older, of course) but that's more common among young newlyweds. When couples get into their 30s, "oppa" becomes too awkward/childish-sounding, so they usually call each other 여보* ("yeo-boh" means "dear" but more neutral than affectionate) or 자기야* ("ja-gi-yah" means "honey" or "darling") among a bunch of other nicknames.

*used only to directly address your spouse; one cannot say "Jaejoong is my 여보".

[fishpatrol]

1) Jaejoong and Yunho entered school a year earlier - in that case, grade level overrides actual age, so anyone born in 1986 but who's a grade below them would have to call them hyung.

I recall someone using the same rationale to explain why Donghae and Eunhyuk call Sungmin "hyung" while Donghae doesn't call Eunhyuk "hyung" even though they are all born in the same year. I suppose it makes sense...but the system must be confusing since you have to figure out the year, and sometimes the month, of all of your friends and acquaintances in order to determine whether an honorific is needed.
With all this attention on age, do Koreans tend to remember their friends' birthdays better? ;D

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

but the system must be confusing since you have to figure out the year, and sometimes the month, of all of your friends and acquaintances in order to determine whether an honorific is needed.

Oh man, Koreans sure love overly convoluted rituals and social systems. ;P But I've noticed the younger Korean generation isn't as strict about honorifics. I know some people who don't mind it at all when their younger friends (by one year) drop honorifics (though any age difference over a year is still a given). And there are others who demand to be called hyung/oppa/unnie/nuna if they're a day older than you. It really depends on the person - the safest approach is to address them as the elder even if they're only slightly older than you, and then drop the honorific once they make it clear that it's acceptable.

With all this attention on age, do Koreans tend to remember their friends' birthdays better? ;D

Haha, yes, actually! Whenever two people have a conversation for first time, I swear birth years & months are ALWAYS mentioned within the first 10 seconds. I guess that's necessary to establish seniority and all that but it gets annoying.....especially as one gets older and more reluctant to publicly announce one's birth year... *sheds an emo tear*~*~

[fishpatrol]

Between, say, coworkers in their thirties and forties, do they still use the same terms when addressing each other (assuming the difference is only in age and not positions)? The speech system seems to be pretty gendered, given the difference between the use of hyung/nuna versus oppa/unnie -- are there other distinct differences between men and women's speech like there is in Japanese ("watashi" vs "boku" and all that)?

Lolll Well, on the bright side, if you turn out to be older than the other person, they have to defer to you; if you turn out to be younger, you can gloat (on the inside ;)) that, hey, even if you have to call them oppa/unnie, at least you're still younger! Win-win :Db

[trolleys.livejournal.com]

Among co-workers it's more formal, so people more or less call each other _____-sshi regardless of age and gender. The honorific changes as you go further up the chain of command, usually [title]-nim.

are there other distinct differences between men and women's speech like there is in Japanese

Hmmm... not really. At least not that I can think of. ^^; I do notice, though, that men definitely have freer reign to address women more casually and drop the honorific quicker, whereas women tend to be consistently polite toward men. Sexism rears its ugly head yet again. xP

if you turn out to be older than the other person, they have to defer to you; if you turn out to be younger, you can gloat (on the inside ;))

XDDD I LIKE YOUR WAY OF THINKING.

[postingwhore.livejournal.com]

1. You are so cute.
3. YOU HAD AN EX-BF??? WHEN. WHY DO WE NOT KNOW THINGS LIKE THIS. -_- ALSO I AM SO JEALOUS THAT YOU COULD PASS FOR A GUY. NO FAIR. :(
Also...I've been hanging around Chinese fora lately, and lol...追星>追总理. I am so easy. :(
4. You so studious. :( I'm still trying to find grad programmes...preferably ones where I don't have to take the GRE, like England. lol. My first choice app...is so ridiculously easy. I don't even have to write any essays, apparently. lol what??????

[fishpatrol]

3. I think I may have alluded to it on my other LJ last year or something? My non-existent love life is not worth talking about, haha. ;;;
Why do you want to be able to pass for a guy, if you don't mind me asking? For me, there is more effort involved in trying to look gendered (female or male) than I'm willing to put in on a daily basis. XD
总理 as in 温家宝? :O:O

4. I'm not really studious at alllll D: I have friends who have been studying the GREs a month or two longer than me and are planning to take the GREs at the same time as me. I'm so unprepared. X3;;; What kind of programs are you looking at? In Canada, most grad programs don't require the GREs...except for psychology. D: (but with the GREs, I can consider schools in the States as well, so I suppose it's useful enough)

[postingwhore.livejournal.com]

2. lol I had a friend who passed for under 12 when she was ~18. She asked to buy a ticket for an imax theatre, the people working were like "child ticket?", and she said sure without realizing they were for people under 12. XDDDDD

3. I think I kind of got it? :P BUT STILL I WANT TO KNOW XD It's more existent than mine, at least. XDDDD
and not necessarily pass as a guy as much as androgynous/agender. :P Which aside from my own gender identity, I find really hot on biological girls. Like with 李宇春. XD;
Yes to 温家宝...there's a cult of fans out there XP They/we call them/ourselves 八寶飯 and post lots of pix of him and stuff and squee over him. Some also like 胡锦涛 and call themselves 什锦飯...Some slash them together, even...although there's always the chance of 和谐 when that happens. And 八寶飯 usually call 温家宝 宝宝. LOL, yeah, I hang around Chinese fora a lot lately. XD;;; And most of it started because there's a picture of 温家宝 when he was young where he looks like Tony Leung *O* Apparently the viewership for the news has gone way up because of 八寶飯 wanting to catch a glimpse of 温家宝. XD It's not all 花痴, either, since lots of people see him as the second people's premier, after 周恩来.

4. I don't even know when the GRE is...lol -_- I've been looking at a lot of programmes since I'm really not sure where I want to go. I do have an interest in gender and sexuality, still, but I've recently discovered that I have a greater interest in identity formation as related to nationalism and immigration, so I'm trying to find programmes that would cater to that and maybe even allow me to tie that in with my interest in gender and sexuality. :| Alas, since I don't have the 10-12 page writing sample most programmes require, I may just do an easy MA first that would produce that...-_-

[fishpatrol]

2. Haha, that's awesome. I should go back to using elementary/secondary school bus/subway tickets. XD

3. Oh, Chinese fans' nicknames ROFL XDDD And wow...I can hardly wrap my mind around all that. XD

4. I think you can take the GREs at any time, pretty much. Just call in to book a time. You were doing some work in immunology and pathology a year or two ago, right? Will you be focusing primarily on sociology from now on? Ugh, I still need to look into programs. D:

[postingwhore.livejournal.com]

3. XD...yeah, a lot of other Chinese forumers couldn't at the beginning, either. :PPPPP 温家宝 is an adorable old man with many good qualities, though. :P

4. o rly? :O Maybe that's only in Canada? :O I have no clue which field I should enter since I'm not sure which field deals with my areas of interest the best...I have a list of, like, five fields, boo, to peruse. :|

[illuminations.livejournal.com]

Interesting re: #5. I will now strive to be more linguistically correct!

[fishpatrol]

You should strive to post more fic on your LJ because I don't know where your writing LJ is! :(:(

[illuminations.livejournal.com]

dkjflskdjf

Look, I have a Suju icon just for you.

[fishpatrol]

\o/ *bookmarks<3*

\o/ *uses somewhat DBSK-ish icon just for you, in return*
(Are you suggesting that Yesung should jump Hankyung? Not that I disagree or anything. :D)